 Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:06 pm |
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| michelle davies |
| Raggie Cat |
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| Joined: 09 Mar 2009 |
Posts: 166
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| Location: littlehampton west sussex |
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ah sarah its piper... such a sweetie, they are all stunning!!!
I love the high whites.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:57 am |
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| thirzajane |
| Baby Raggie |
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| Joined: 17 Oct 2009 |
Posts: 20
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| Location: New Zealand |
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| Chris wrote: | For example, if you mate two Mitted cats together and both parents throw their mitted gene, then resulting kittens will appear to be the Bi Colour pattern. However, because they have no Bi Colour parent, then they will never produce you a Bi Colour kitten ( unless mated back to a 'true' Bi Colour) These kittens, when mated to a Colourpointed will only produce Mitted kittens because they have inherited the Mitted gene from their parents.
In the USA. breeders were keeping High Mitted kittens which they thought were actually Bi Colours, and then wondering why they were either producing cats with huge amount of white on them ( through mating back to BiColours or other High Mitteds) or only producing Mitted Kittens when mating back to Colourpointeds!!!
This is why the quest for finding 'True Bi Colours' has been never ending from abroad!!!
It is the same with the Mid High White. These kittens are produced when mating a Bi Colour to a Mitted. If the parents throw their Bi Colour gene and their Mitted gene to the same kitten, that kitten will result in having both white spotting genes. They appear as a Bi Colour, usually having more white than is normal ( but not always!) and when mated back to a colourpointed will only produce Bi Colour and mitted Kittens.
These cats are perfect for breeders who have a Colourpointed Stud boy ( or colourpointed Queens) and want to produce only Bi Colours and Mitteds as that Colourpointed gene helps regulate the white spotting gene bringing the resulting kittens back to 'normal' genetically.
Exactly the same happens with the high white. The matings between two Bi Colour Parents can result in a kitten which has inherited the Bi Colour gene from both parents. These kittens usually have a HUGE amount of white on them sometimes appearing almost to have a 'Van' Pattern. They cannot produce colourpointed kittens and when mated back to a colourpointed, will only produce Bi Colour offspring. This again is perfect if a breeder wants to 'specialise in the Bi Colour Pattern. |
Sorry for the long quote but the subject's been idle for a while.
I have some questions. Once you've got two white spotting genes, (whether bicolour or mitted) on the one cat, what effect would breeding it to another high white sort of cat have? Is it possible to drive the colour right off their coats or is it not additive since both the gene slots can only pick up a single bicolour or mitted white spotting gene?
If there's a Van style high white (compared to a high white who's just 'more than a bicolour') when it's bred back to a colourpoint does the Van parent's gene leave more white on their bicolour offspring than a more moderate high white leave?
I guess I'm trying to figure out what governs the ACTUAL white amount - how do Raggies inherit (indeed, can they?) a good white pattern or a mismarked one. Or is that still luck of the draw?
(Perhaps there are grades of the bicolour gene or a the mitted gene?) |
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:12 pm |
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| Chris |
| Princess Pushy |
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| Joined: 06 Oct 2008 |
Posts: 1077
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| Location: Hertfordshire |
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[/quote]I have some questions. Once you've got two white spotting genes, (whether bicolour or mitted) on the one cat, what effect would breeding it to another high white sort of cat have? Is it possible to drive the colour right off their coats or is it not additive since both the gene slots can only pick up a single bicolour or mitted white spotting gene?
If there's a Van style high white (compared to a high white who's just 'more than a bicolour') when it's bred back to a colourpoint does the Van parent's gene leave more white on their bicolour offspring than a more moderate high white leave?
I guess I'm trying to figure out what governs the ACTUAL white amount - how do Raggies inherit (indeed, can they?) a good white pattern or a mismarked one. Or is that still luck of the draw?
(Perhaps there are grades of the bicolour gene or a the mitted gene?)[/quote]
The appearance of the white spotting gene does vary from cat to cat even in a 'true' bi colour and the mitted. It can be quite random.
Some 'true' Bi Colours will have a wide 'v' and some will have nothing more than a small 'blaze'. You can get Bi colours with perfect white markings and others who are hidiously mismarked. The same goes with the Mitted.
When mating a Bi Colour with a Mitted, the same can happen. You can get a Mid High White which looks just like as a 'true' Bi Colour with hardly any extra white on it except for small spot just under the ear or stripe down one side of an ear. You can also get a Mid High which has no colour AT ALL on its back.
When mated back to a Colourpointed, both Mid Highs, High Whites, High Mitteds are no more likley to produce well marked kittens than other matings. However I do believe that some Ragdolls DO throw better marked offspring than others do. Our Owen can produce beautifully marked kittens and others are dreadfully mismarked regardless of the girl he is mated to.
I personally have done only a few matings of Bi Colour to Bicolour and have never produced what I consider a Van Pattern. As I am not overkeen on too much white on a Ragdoll, I have limited those matings.
I do know though, of breeders who have produced kittens with very little colour and also pure white kittens by breeding High Whites to High Whites. So it appears it can be done although it is very random. I do know that it is extremely difficult to rid the colour completely.
These two photos are of a Mid High White.
This boy is also a Mid High!
And this one!!!
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_________________
Cheham Ragdolls
Traditional Values with Tomorrow's Advances |
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:23 am |
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| thirzajane |
| Baby Raggie |
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| Joined: 17 Oct 2009 |
Posts: 20
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| Location: New Zealand |
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| Chris wrote: | | I do know though, of breeders who have produced kittens with very little colour and also pure white kittens by breeding High Whites to High Whites. So it appears it can be done although it is very random. I do know that it is extremely difficult to rid the colour completely. |
Thanks for your answer, Chris. I think the first cat you've shown is absolutely beautiful! (Perhaps I like 'white' cats far too much.)
But if high white x high white matings do produce more white than their parents then it makes me wonder if there is something additive going on. Not something breeders would need to worry about, I suppose, since it's not very useful to produce (even pet) cats so divergent from the standard, but as a pet owner (and we are the ones who end up with most of the mismarks, after all - LOL!) these mysteries do bother me.
If high whites have two bicolour white spotting genes each and are bred together, all their off-spring can only get are two bicolour white spotting genes - exactly the same as their parents, so why would the white increase over a first generation high white?
I shall puzzle over it some more. 
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